Haylee Dee & Sunshine Parker: The Long Game

In this episode, I sit down with Haylee Dee and Sunshine Parker for a conversation about creativity, burnout, collaboration, and what it means to keep evolving as artists and people.

We talk about studying music intensely, the pressure of trying to make one path “work,” and how burnout can quietly reshape your relationship to the thing you love most. Haylee and I reflect on coming from the same high school music program and mentor, while Haylee and Sunshine share how they met through McNally Smith and eventually grew from “chummy” classmates into long-term creative collaborators and loversss <3

We get into songwriting, harmonizing, leadership, identity within music, and how songs change once they’re handed to other musicians to help shape. We also talk about curiosity, and the importance of actually following it, whether that looks like starting Muay Thai, streaming video games, organizing with TCUP (Twin Cities United Performers), or giving yourself permission to completely pivot.

This conversation also dives into the realities of being a working artist: student loans, working multiple jobs, the rising cost of living, and the fight to protect art as something essential to community, not just something capitalism gets to decide the value of.

We keep coming back to the age old question: What does success actually meannnn!!?!?

For all three of us, the answer seems to have something to do with connection, honesty, curiosity, and making things that genuinely move us.

Sunshine & the Nightwalkers: https://linktr.ee/sunshineandthenightwalkers 

Haylee Dee: https://linktr.ee/scarlettlovelee 

TCUP: https://linktr.ee/TCUPMN

N2P: www.linktr.ee/nothingtoprovepod 

Abrianne: www.instagram.com/abriannemusic

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello everyone and welcome to the Nothing to Prove Only to Share podcast. My name is Abreanne. Um, thank you for your patience as I have been living. Um, I needed to take some time over the last year. I recently moved to Seattle, and a lot has happened between when these episodes were recorded and now this episode this week that I'm releasing is with Hayley D and Sunshine Parker. We talked about studying music, the pressure of trying to make one path work. We talked about burnout and how that can reshape your relationship with the things that you love the most. Haley and I actually went to the same high school and studied in the same music department growing up. Um so we kind of reflected on that, and that was really wholesome and lovely. We talk about songwriting, leadership, identity within music, staying curious. We also talked about just the realities of being an artist, like living with student loans, working multiple jobs, and fighting to protect art as something that's essential to community, not just something that capitalism gets to decide the value of. Haley and Sunshine are both members of Teacup, Twin Cities United Performers. I'm excited that they got to share a little bit about that in this episode. Keep your ears peeled. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Nothing approved. Dude, thanks for having us. Yeah. Um, I want to first introduce you guys. Sunshine and Haley. When y'all cause like, are you Haley? Or are you Haley or are you Hayley D?

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Um I am Haley D. Love. Yeah, I don't really use my government last name. It's not um bleep it out. Is that as cute, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

No, you know I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

And you're Sunshine and the Night Walkers, but like do you go by I'm cool with sunshine or sunny, like just depends on what people are comfortable with. That's cool with me.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Okay, love.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

I want to so usually when I have two folks in one interview, it can get a little long. And I want to give you guys each your time, but I want you to get out of here when you want to get out of here too. So feel free to talk as much or as little as you like, sweet. Sweet.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

We can yap. We're we're yappers. We're yappers for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I'm so happy to hear that. Um if you guys want to just like take turns to give a little bit of like a backstory intro. Sunshine, do you want to start?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Um, maybe just tell us like where you're from. And I always like to hear like first music memory or how music came into your life.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah. Um, I'm from here. I was born in Minneapolis. Uh grew up like a little north of the cities near Force Lake. First music. I think I would when I was a teenager, I was uh always writing, loved writing, writing stories. I have like memories of like my we'd do like group calls with my friends, and and I would like be on a typewriter, like writing a story, and then I'd tell them it and and they would you know whatever laugh if it was weird or whatever. Um but music, I I was going through like a lot of like mental health stuff when I was a teenager, and I started like writing through like the advice of a therapist, music therapist, it was like maybe like music is is a good thing for you, and so I picked up like writing and a guitar then and and uh yeah, changed my life.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Amazing. Anything from like your early years that is released somewhere, secret?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

It's in a vault, it's all in a vault. No, I did I did do oh man, one of my like first bands did like an acoustic recording. I was trying to remember the other day, like where did we do that? Because it was through a friend. Um and I don't know where it is, it's gone, it's gone in the ether now. But yeah, we we recorded some stuff, but yeah, that's it's all older stuff. It'd be fun to hear though, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, amazing. Um so you grew up here. Did you ever venture outside of the Metro?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I uh went to uh college for a short stint in Stevens Point in Wisconsin. I dropped out in like a month or so.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Right on. What were you gonna study?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Uh creative writing. Okay. Yeah. And then I was like, nah, I want to do music, and then I dropped out.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Do you do any creative writing like outside of songwriting?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, I do, I have like um an ongoing story that I'm writing that I whenever I have time, and I don't often like it a ton of time, but I have like a whole kind of like series that I want to write. Um cool. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Do you want to share what it's about? I'm so curious.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, it's it's about okay, so it's about like uh it's like it's like very like private investigator setup. So like a normal setup of like here's a guy who is a former cop, he's kind of unhinged. Uh, and it and the thing is like he he has a demon inside of him, and so he can like he when he whenever he's like around like evil, um he can sense people's like urges and stuff, and then the more he like senses it, the more he plays into it, the more evil he gets. Um and so that's like kind of the setup, and it's like uh it's a way to talk like kind of talk about anti-violence in a way of like you would think that he would be the hero, but actually he's not, he's the the villain of the story.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Interesting, cool. Well keep me posted on that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I I want to get more time for it for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

I also do you guys know Zach Baker? Yes, yeah, because he just like self-published a book really that he wrote. Oh, that's right. I just think that's awesome, and I feel like reading stuff, like not because I mean I think aside from songs and lyrics and poems, reading somebody's book, like somebody that you know, reading their book is so awesome. I could see that I could see that the people in your life get that.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, it's definitely been like a lot of people in my life have I've read things to them to be like, oh, check this out, like what does this bring up for you, you know? Um, but yeah, I have spent a lot of time on it, but not recently, just because we've had so much band stuff going on. But I would love to get back to it for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Cool, I love that.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

It would be awesome if it was a comic book. I think it like the little bit that I know about it that you've shared is like it feels like it's a comic book.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I could see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Well, it'd be so cool to get like a local illustrator involved too.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

I know, I would love to do that. Yeah, that'd be sick.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Um, Haley, do you want to give us a little intro?

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Yeah. Um I was also born in well, I was like technically born in Coon Rapids, but grew up on the Iron Range. Um, as you know, we went to high school together, which is amazing. Deep lore. Deep deep, deep, deep, deep lore. Yeah. You actually like know the the piece of like, you know where my music started. You got you saw it, we shared that together, which is really cool. Started doing music like every kid does, band, choir. Uh our school was like just had the basics.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Um but did you join band too?

SPEAKER_05 7:22

I was in band first, because like sixth grade you get like you join, yeah. And so I played for like a couple years, but I don't know, I didn't really like the teacher. Honest. And like it just sounds deep lore. Yeah, yeah. Super deep lore.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Oh if you know, you know. Um wait, what did you play?

SPEAKER_05 7:44

Uh saxophone. Okay, word.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

I played clarinet, and I also quit for the same reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Um shade being thrown at music teachers on an iron ring.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

Uh that's okay, because Mr. Barnes, as you know, filled that huge hole. Um which was great. And then I just became fully entrenched in choir. Uh we had the jazz choir and stuff, so you know, extracurricular, you're going before and after school. Um, got really involved in like contest and stuff, which is like so nerdy, but you learned like a ton of music, like you didn't just learn your choir stuff for your jazz choir stuff. You were learning other things and you were thinking about it differently, and like whatever. So I feel like that totally like contest is really what was like, I'm gonna study this because this is fun, right? Like, here's this really difficult piece, and you're like thinking about it in a way that you don't think about just like acquired class song, you know what I mean? Um a lot of ownership over the outcome of it, and yeah, yeah. So that was like I remember like I wanted, I was like somehow really good at math in high school, which is so weird now, because I'm not, but I was like, I'm gonna be an engineer and like all the classic kind of stuff, you know. Um, yeah, but then I started doing contest in choir, and I was like, this is way more fun to study. Like this is what am I doing? Then math. Yeah. Um, yeah, so then I uh uh tried to take as many study halls as I could so I could hang out in the choir room or in the auditorium or in the practice rooms, um did the got got my grades and then just like focused on music and all the other times that I could. Um Yeah. Then fast forward went to McNally Smith College of Music, Rest in Peace. Um studied for till 2016 and yeah, now I'm here.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Were you able to finish your program before they okay? Yeah, I was. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

Um yes. Great for me that I got to finish. Terrible for like the student loan aspect of it, because then I couldn't get anything um forgiven. You have to like Oh what? You can like get them forgiven, but you have to turn in your transcript essentially, like nulls your education. That's how uh it was explained to me. What?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

So it's like good it was like good and bad. It's like, oh yay, like I I did the thing, I did the four years, I did I met amazing people and whatever, but then it was like at the expense. But regardless, yeah, and then um just kind of been living life doing music and bands here and there. Cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

I so deep love for me is that like one of my earliest influences was Haley. That's so precious. And I remember you saying something like when you were about to leave for college, you were like, This, like I'm gonna make this work. Like I have to just make this work. Is that still where you're at? Not at all. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

I was so I've been thinking about that, um, especially in a line with like what is success. Yeah. And it's cool having this conversation with you because you have seen that part of my life where I was like, yeah, like you're like, fuck the haters. I'm gonna do music, I'm gonna, that's gonna be my life, and everybody who ever doubted me is gonna be like, oh wow, you know, and like you're we're young and naive and like full of excitement and inspiration, and you know, you just don't know things yet, or whatever, and you don't know yourself, really. Um yeah, so I mean, all through like McNally, I for sure had that. Like that what that's what got me through school was like, be good at this thing. Like you spent money and time, you want to do this, there's nothing really else you can even see yourself studying. We have to get college degrees, like whatever, right? So a lot of like fitting into the mold of like expectations and stuff, um, and yet maybe as a coping mechanism, or who knows. But now it's like I have that same energy for just like life in general. Like, we're gonna make it work, like not like music is gonna be the thing that like makes it. Like, I don't even know what that means. Um, I think that attitude actually like brought me to burnout after McNally because I was like studied so hard and was so wrapped up in like wanting to be the best I could be, but for like so I could get hired and so people would know my name, and it was all this like self-importance, and um that's just not sustainable, and it is like a lot of pressure, whatever. So I think yeah, I graduated McNally and I was like, I love a lot of other things about life, you know. That's amazing. Um, and so I started exploring some of those things, and yeah, so that's that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Cool, yeah, cool. So where did you guys meet? Like, where in the timeline? Like, was it during McNally after McNally?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

We origin originally met at McNally.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Um I think it was yeah, like we were just talking about this the other day, like your junior or senior year. I think I started going there. Yeah. And I was like, I had been doing music for a long time, and I went back to school and I was like in my mid-20s. Okay. And so, um, because I was mostly like self-taught, and then I went back to McNally when I was like 24, 25 or something. Okay. Um yeah, that's where we met. And then you graduated and I was still there, and then we ended up like meeting back up in 2020 uh randomly when I just like slid in your DMs.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Okay, so it wasn't like initially flared DM. It was like you guys were friends. Uh or both. Dude, I love both. You know I love both.

SPEAKER_05 13:38

We like recall this point of our lives so differently. Um amazing.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

But I thought you were I thought you were really cool, you know? Like I was like, you're dope. And I just wanted to get to know you and be and be Buzz.

SPEAKER_05 13:52

Yeah, I think I also thought you were really cool. Um Yeah.

unknown 14:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

I don't know how much you want to record this. Um It's like an ongoing joke that I was like trying to hang out with him way more than he was trying to hang out with me. And then like finally, five years later.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Slid into the dance. Slid in the dance.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

You played the long game and it worked out.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

And was it like, do you want to hang out, or was it like, do you want to jump on this gig?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Uh it was like It was like, Do you want to hang out? Do you want to hang out?

SPEAKER_05 14:24

Yeah. Um Yeah, I think you like shared some music and we just like casually chatted and we were chummy, you know, just chummy.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

It was just like the classic, like, you see a picture in your timeline, you're like, oh shit, it's them. Like, I wonder how they're doing. And uh that's like what happens. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

That's awesome. So then it was after that that you joined Sunshine and the Nightwalkers? Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah. So how long has Sunshine and the Nightwalkers existed?

SPEAKER_01 14:52

It was like partially happening at McNally, I think. Okay, cool. With like so the the funny like thing about the name is it was originally just the Nightwalkers, but then it was like, eh, it's like not there's other bands that are named that, and and then it was like I was playing with a bunch of like 18-year-olds fresh out of high school, you know, that it were in my class because I was a freshman, and I was like 25, and and I had you know, I'd I've had my fair share of trouble in my life, and like here's all these like fresh like music kids. So it was like kind of a joke of like Sunshine and the Night Walker's like really I'm like the Night Walker and they're the sunshine, but it's the opposite, you know. Um but yeah, so then we we just started playing when I was at McNally, and then when the school closed, it kind of like stopped and I had no band anymore because a lot of people moved back home and stuff. Um, but then I think back when I met Haley again, it was like and met a couple more McNally people that were still around, and we kind of started it back up in in 2020, and that's the current roster has been evolving since then.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Okay, sweet. Yeah, I didn't realize it was so recent, it just feels like something that's been forever.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah, it's been it's a cool journey of like yeah, something starting at McNally, but then like completely changing because of everything that happened, you know. Um but still like we see McNally people all the time, and me and Haley both went to McNally. Alec went to McNally. You know, it's there's a lot of people that we see all the time that are still around in the in the scene, which is really cool because it was such an amazing place.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

When did you first release music under that name?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Uh 2022. Wow, okay. Was our first full-length album, and then we had an EP back at McNally that we released.

SPEAKER_05 16:41

Cool yeah, when was the EP? That was old. That's pretty old.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

2018? Yeah. Yeah, that was the first thing.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

And that's under your name.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

And that was yeah, that was Sunshine and the Nightwalkers, and that was with all the school people. Um, and it was rec recorded at McNally.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

Cool. Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yeah, been those studios.

SPEAKER_05 16:57

It's still on Spotify if you go to those. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Which is cool, is it? College Sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

It's very different.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Um, College Sunshine and Nightwalkers.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

But yeah, like the current group that got back together uh was 2022, is when we released the folding.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Cool. So has the process of like writing changed as you've like kind of reformed the group?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

It's definitely changed, yeah. I think we've been there's been a lot of talk about like how it's been going, and I think like so the there's been a lot of changes recently with the with the roster, and we're kind of trying a new approach now where it's like playing with maybe different people every gig. Maybe some of like the core people are kind of the same, like me and Haley and Alec and Everett, who's playing drums for us now.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

And what does Alec do?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

He plays guitar and sings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

Um and does Art Tech. He's our Art Tech Lord. He's the fucking MVP, really.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

He's the best. We were laughing the other day with uh uh one of our friends who were like, man, if we didn't have him, like what the fuck? Like we wouldn't know what to do with our rack, what to do with the in-ears, like we wouldn't be like, I don't know, impress something. Um yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, I think I the thing that I really like want is more collaborative stuff. Um but it's hard. I I write all the time and I'm like continually writing, and I arrange and like write horn parts and everything, so and it's just not in the current climate, like it's hard to get eight, nine people together to write together, you know. Um totally. So I would I would love to do that. And then the people we have now I think are more more inspired by like collaborating, and so I've already done some of that with people like with the horn writing or whatever. So I hope to do more of that. But yeah, it's it's a it's an ongoing process of and you learn different things, which is really cool. You know, like actually like when we started with um like the 2020 during the pandemic, it was me and Haley and Alec, and we played like acoustic shows a lot together, and we were doing like three-part harmonies, and I was like, I was like, this is amazing, because like I was learning so much from Haley and and Alec is he was in barbershop barbershop stuff, and and like writing harmonies is just so new to me, and I was like, this is this is amazing because it's very much like horns, but you know, just in a little bit different context. So yeah, it was it the stuff you learn from different musicians is is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 19:26

Do you have a regular contribution to songwriting or is it just like sometimes you jump on my it really depends on like how deep sunshine gets in the song that he's writing? Like I've noticed um it's not like a you don't have like a I'm gonna leave background parts for you to participate with. It's like sometimes they come to you and you're like, this is like sometimes you start with like the three-part harmony thing. You're like, wouldn't this be sick as like the basis of this section or whatever? Um so it really depends like how long how deep you are into the process, and like because I don't know, just uh but I've I've contributed on the the latest album, um, the one that's out. I think I contributed to most all of the background parts.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

The one that's coming out, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:14

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah? We have like two singles out.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

So much music. Like when he says he's writing all the time, like I'm gonna gas you for a second, but like all the time. Like dude always has like 20 to 30 songs that are fleshed out re ideas, like not done, but like you're just yeah, so it's too much, really. It's honestly it's kind of hard to keep up with him.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Um so it's like my brain is swimming most of the time.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

I love it when you come to me and ask me, like, hey, what do you think? But I also love it when you're like, dude, listen to what I wrote. And it's like, hell yeah, what are those harmonies? And like then we dissect and maybe we change stuff because it doesn't quite work once you like actually try to sing it or whatever, because that's like another thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

I think that's probably the most contributing that I do would be like, you will come up with like a really awesome harmony um set of harmonies, and when you put it into logic and like but bust out the demo, your voices, your three voices stacked on each other have this very unique sound, and it's cool, and it's very, it's very cool. It sounds amazing. And then when you're like, okay, now you, me, and Alec are gonna sing it, sounds way different.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:21

It's just like, it's like, oh shit. So I think I feel like I do a lot of like problem solving in that way where it's like, it's not really a problem, but it's like, okay, so here's this really hip idea that you created. How can we like we might have to change some things to sell the same idea with our three voices and stuff? I feel like my experience sets me up for that like really well, being all like the jazz choirs and stuff that I've been in, and yeah, blending and rearranging your voices and different um registers can just add so much to like the what you're trying to do. Totally. Um but you like have a ton of theory knowledge, and you like the concept of the harmony and the sound is like in your bed. Like you write, you arrange.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. Yeah, I mean the the and that's true like horns and stuff too, right? It's like you might it might sound great and logic, but then you give it to three horn players and it's like maybe not.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Uh and yeah, the the yeah, if I'm if I sing a harmony and the top voice is in falsetto, but then now Haley's singing it, it's like, well, that has a different vibe. You know, so it's a lot of yeah, a lot of back and forth of what's gonna work. And I write weird harmonies too that maybe are just like not necessary. And then Haley's like, nah, why don't we just do the third, bro?

SPEAKER_05 22:36

Literally, doesn't have to be weird to be weird, but it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I think whatever, it's always nice to have like somebody else's perspective. Everybody hears something different, so it's always fun to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

And I don't just I don't come from that choir background, right? Which is like you are just entrenched in harmonies all the time, you know, and that's that's a different you have a different ear for it then.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah. Do you feel like you got a lot of harmony experience like in like high school choir?

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Because low key, I have some beef.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Yes, dude. I'm down to talking about the beef.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Because like, because I've I guess I am a soprano. Like that's true and real, but it's not like I'm like I can't sing super high.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

But I think just because I had a loud voice, like a big voice, I was put I was placed there because the soprano is always singing the melody. And I feel like I came into the world a little bit like not equipped with the with the tools I needed. Like, I didn't I feel like I had to teach myself to harmonize 100%. And so that's my view.

SPEAKER_05 23:35

No, that's uh it's so valid. Um, yeah, it's so funny. I went into McNally, you know, they ask you, are you a soprano? Because that you should have kind of a sense. And I was like, Yeah, I'm a soprano. And then I get through my audition and whatever, and everyone's like, You are not a soprano. And I'm like, my world was rocked, dude. I was like, what do you mean? I sing loud and I can sing high and loud and I can belt, like I'm a soprano. Like I was like offended. And then not really, but I was like, like it's my identity. Yeah. And that's literally because coming from a small school, if you have any music in you really at all, um you fall into a leadership role, right? And yeah, it's true, the sopranos sing the melody, and you at least need the melody to be on. And that's not to say like they didn't find good, like Mr. B did find like solid altos and stuff, but he had to like split, you know. It was like, if you could sing high at all, like you just have to be here, you know. Um, and which made I mean it did make McNally really difficult. Uh like I luckily I I made um I made the our contemporary vocal jazz ensemble, which was like a pretty big deal, and I was in it for a few years, and yeah, as an alto singing alto and tenor parts, and it was so hard. Yeah, tenor. I mean a lot of a lot of like girls sing tenor, um a lot of like guys sing alto, like like there's like some tenors that pop up and like sing alto with us, and yeah, and it's and I just learned so much about like the texture and quality of your voice in different registers is so much fun to play with. It's it's just like you're like you're I genuinely felt like I like bloomed into a different um vocalist. My voice completely changed. I stopped listening to the the the music I was listening to that was putting me in like the the the Carrie Underwoods and like the like high Belty whatever um pop stars and started listening to like jazz and RB and like I don't know just really getting into into that, but it was a struggle for sure. And I was like definitely not leading the theory classes and like I like struggled in that front too because we didn't really get any of that either.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

So much beef happening, but certainly got a lot of like encouragement, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

So I love I love how you're always talking, like we were we laugh a lot about how like the the inner voices, like it just like really trains your ears so much. And like if you're singing lead, it's like that's the easy shit, you know. It's like that's for real. You don't you don't get the the the meaty stuff, you know, that's like the weird the weird movements of like why you know like oh I'm uh up a half step and going down, you know? Um and yeah, so we we've done we've worked on that a lot and it's crazy, man. Singing really cool harmonies is so much fun, and but yeah, it's it's a skill that you really have to develop.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Definitely. Hilly, do you do any like writing like lyrically or yeah, um compared to Sunshine?

SPEAKER_05 26:46

Absolutely not. But I do no, I know, I know, yeah. No comparing necessary. I I just like I do it cathartically. I don't really I try to remove like expectations. I I did set a goal for myself for my senior recital to have as many songs on um on the bit on the program that I wrote. So I I ended up feeling confident enough with four songs by my senior recital, which is great because I think that I think you have like eight or nine, so at least like half the program was songs that I wrote. Um that was a really yeah, I made that choice. I'm like, I'm I don't really feel like connected, like I'm a songwriter, but I it was like a really good um exercise in like finding my primal sound, if that makes any sense. Like not trying to um imitate other artists by learning the actual song. I mean, obviously, you know, it's all derivative, but like yeah, like I don't know, yeah, what does my voice sound like? Um it's good to write for that exercise, like not even trying to be like, I'm trying to be a songwriter or whatever. Um I have dreams of like being able to just bust out songs, but I know that takes like so much time and effort and practice, and um I'm not quite there. Like I'm curious enough, which I will talk about at like the idea of success, but I'm not like fully um entrenched in it. I'm still very much like I do it for the for it to be cathartic, and I just want to lay down on my couch and strum along and just not give a shit about anything more therapeutic, I guess. Yeah, but I do. That's a writer. You're a writer.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Very casually self, it's just for myself.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

We're thinking about bringing back one year, June.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

You are, which is really cool. Yeah. I'm stoked about that because I'm I'm hoping we can actually like fudge with the arrangement a little bit to give it more um a sunshine in the night walkers uh sparkle. Because right now it's very much not your genre, but I was there at that recital, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah. I saw it.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Whoa, yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

It was you did.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

It was sick. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you have a di you have like a more jazzy vibe to your stuff and RB soul type of thing, which is really cool. So I'm I'm excited to try to interpolate it together.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Put some horns on it.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Yeah, really crazy.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

And would you describe Sunshine and the Night Walkers as like funk?

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah, funk, blues, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

It's it's hard to it's all the same, kind of.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Yeah, yeah. I mean it it's interesting, like we talk about genre a lot and like how it's functional, but not really at the same time. But then there's also all this like realm of like if you describe yourself as a funk artist, are you like are you respecting the history of funk, you know, and and where that came from and black musicians and all that, and so it does mean something to think about it, and then you should, but at the same time, it's like I wouldn't I'm not I'm not like a straight up funk artist because we play so many different types of stuff, you know. So it's there's m multiple boxes.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

I feel like Americana, like your old stuff is like very blues Americana vibes, yeah. And then your newer stuff, um, even not even the 2022 album, but like now the stuff that's not released is like the stuff we'll hear on Thursday is more like the the pop funk. Like you're you're really I don't know, you're really getting into the poppier funk side of your genre. Yeah. But when we play three hour shows, you get Americana, you get blues, you get like this cluster thing, you get you have to go deep in the bag for that.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Cool. So when is that record gonna come out?

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

The question. The hard question. Um Yeah, we have we have two singles out now. We have a third one coming, I think, hopefully in July. And then we have one more single, and I I'm hoping by the end of the year we'll have the whole album out. Cool. It's been a we always laugh. It's uh it's an ongoing, it's a it's a long process. Yeah. Like the Born in the Basement, which is the 2022 album, that took us four years. Damn. Yeah. And it was like kind of a you know, during the pandemic for part of it and all that, so it was a lot of stuff happening. And also I just like we're doing it all ourselves, so that just takes a lot of time.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

And I like to add things a lot. Yeah. So I'll be like, oh, you know what? We need actually like 12 horns on this, not just four. And yeah. It's just it's a it's a creative. I don't like to restrict myself creatively, but then sometimes you have to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

You know, I feel like so many folks are in a rush. You seem very calm. Any wisdom, any words to share on like taking your time? Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah, I I don't care. It's evident that I don't care about schedule, you know, like you gotta have a song out every month, and that that's gonna keep people uh engaged, and I just don't care about that shit. But yeah, and maybe I should care about it more. Um But yeah, I I just want it to be like to have the feeling, you know, to be like, oh yeah, that's it. And and we're good, you know. And then but then sometimes it's like that's it, and then a month down the road you're like, no, that's not it. That's not it.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yes, yes. I think that can sometimes be the problem with with staying on one project for too long, is definitely overthinking, or just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Which we tried the this album, we were like, okay, we're gonna record it in a month, and then we're gonna get it out, and it's like we we had and we did we did record it pretty fast, but then it was then it's just you know, schedules and mixing and everything takes a long time. So yeah, it just happens.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Is it just like your crew that's recording and mixing? Yeah, it's so awesome. Yeah, it's so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Alec does all the recording, that's why he's MVP Tag Lord. Yeah, we did send out the last album we sent out for mastering to um Greg, who's from McNally. I forget what what his I can't remember what his company is called, but this time Alec is actually he's recording it and m mixing and mastering it. Period, Alec. So he's just like, okay, dude, all right. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

Yeah, he's the literal bust, and he's super busy, and so his time is um very valuable. So we're very very lucky.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

I'm really excited to see you guys on Thursday. The last time I saw you all was um I think you were at Turf Club. Oh maybe even like a couple years ago now.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

With uh new prims, yes, yes, bro.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

That was the first time I saw them. They are ridiculous. No, that was oh, I forgot that they were on that bill too. Yeah, that was my very first time seeing them, and they were amazing.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Yeah. We I was talking with uh my guitar teacher Spencer Bradley, who's a he's a McNally alum as well. Um and we were like, man, like the funk like kind of has gone from the scene a little bit. Um and we're and then I was like, yeah, who's left? Like new prims is like, yeah, they're still going, but yeah, it's it's we had so many, like you know, Corey Wong, and but he apparently he's moved to Nashville and stuff with the band. And it's uh it's interesting to see like what happened after the pandemic and after McNally closed. It's kind of changed the scene a lot.

SPEAKER_05 34:06

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, like New Sun Underground, Fo Funk. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

I so I could like wrap up in the next 10 minutes, or I could reset the cameras.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

I'm chilling. I'm having a good time. Cool, cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah, I'm feeling good. Does anybody want to stand up for like okay?

SPEAKER_05 34:26

I'm chilling. I'm okay. Yeah, I feel good. Perfect. I'm in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

You're a streamer, so you're this is like nothing for you.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

I got those standing up for the lights.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, sitting for eight hours.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yeah, I did kind of want to ask because you had earlier mentioned like some other things that you're passionate about. Yes. Tell me.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Oh my gosh, I would love to. Um yeah, post-burnout, McNally. I as I'm coming to terms with that I actually burned out. Like I was like, really, I was like, that's not me. No. It's just I'm just I would never burn out. Yeah. And that's what, like, you know, uh going back to the thing that you remember about me saying something in high school about being like whatever it is, like I'm it's I'm gonna do it or whatever. I forget how you phrased it. Um, which is it's just like kind of a full circle moment. Um, yeah, so I was also really into sports in high school. Like, you know, I was I was on all the freaking teams and I was like very much a thing in my life. And then I go to music school and nobody does any sports ever. Um occasionally there's like something at the Y where people are.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

I know a lot of musicians who love to play frisbee.

SPEAKER_05 35:37

Yeah, sure. That they can see that.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Sport, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Um which jock musicians are out there. I've met a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but it's just like funny, like how my whiplash of my worlds. And yeah, I just uh yeah, I graduated McNally and I was like, I really want to do sports, I want to do something active, but like it's kind of expensive. And um, I've always really been interested in martial arts. I think martial arts is cool as a concept, is like a it at the time I was like selling it to myself, like I'm a musician, like I should learn how to self-defend myself, you know. Like I'm gonna be like, I don't know, parking like four or five blocks away in the middle of the night at three in the morning. Like I should, I don't know, I should do whatever. I don't know why I had to convince myself to go like study martial arts. But anyway, so I I started doing Muay Thai and I like do what I do. I drop everything in my life to like learn something, dive headfirst and forget about everything else. I did that for I mean, I'm still kind of doing that, but I did that for like I don't know, four, four or five years and was like competing. So yeah, got good enough to start training with the team and actually competing, and so I was I've been in the ring a handful of times and it's been cool, but then that's like a whole other thing. That's like kind of a super intense lifestyle. Again, probably burned out, um, and then slid more into like a teaching role uh as like a way to like I I really enjoy teaching. I didn't realize how much I love teaching. Um yeah, it's so cool like helping people realize how strong they are because like everybody comes in being like very afraid to like hit hard or afraid to move their body in this way, it's very vulnerable. Um and the consequences of being good or bad at it feel really like intense because you're fighting or whatever, and the whole framework of what you're training in is like this really like intense topic, right? Um, anyways, so it's just very cool to help people realize that. And I just like absolutely fell in love with it. So I just I slid back from training uh consistently and competing, and like I still train, but like really casually and um and I teach whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Do you ever teach voice or have you ever?

SPEAKER_05 38:03

I no. Uh well I right now like I have a friend who um I'm like helping, like I guess I'm teaching voice, but it's like not in a traditional setting at all. Um like I'm not like at the piano running through exercises and stuff. We're just like working on things that they have questions about, and I'm using my knowledge to the best of my ability, and it's really fun. But it's not like I'm not like selling vocal lessons or anything, you know, it's just like a we're we're actually trading. So I love that. Yeah, yeah. It's perfect. Um yeah, they do my hair and I give them voice lessons.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Dude, what a beautiful trait.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

So great.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah. Did they do your hair? They did, yeah. Yeah, I was noticing that in your story earlier.

SPEAKER_05 38:44

Thank you. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, and then yeah, so that, and then over the pandemic, I was like, streaming is cool, and I was I didn't even know how to play video games when I like wanted to start streaming. Um, so I started gaming and streaming at the same time because that is like what I do is drop everything else in my life and do the most. Yeah, anyway, so that's how that happened. Um and now I'm trying to balance all of it. I'm trying to balance music, teaching, muay thai, training, and streaming, which is how's that work? I don't know. And also organizing, which is like Admittedly, streaming is taking kind of a back seat because organizing with T Cup has been like Oh my god, yeah, we should talk about T Cup.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

T Cup definitely. How'd you all get involved with T Cup?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

We uh we so I I think you were on the like the sheet that everybody signed, right? Yeah. Yeah. So both of us signed the musicians in support of the first AV workers unionizing. Um and then I think like in the spring, uh over a year ago, it was like our friend Dante, uh, who's playing in the band on Thursday actually. Oh yeah. Uh he was part of T Cup and we just asked to do like a meeting with him and see what was up, and we had a one-on-one with him, and it was awesome. And and we got involved and been organizing with him ever since.

SPEAKER_05 40:11

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:13

Diving literally head first dropping everything else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

It's been, I mean, honestly, like when I was thinking about yeah, what what's success, like building community and organizing people as part of music, uh feels like very much like am I fulfilled and am I doing that? Like fulfilling the community at the same time. And then there's all like the personal growth of stuff too, but like, yeah, ever since like Teacup has gotten together, like the amount of like fulfilling community and yeah, like fighting for our rights as as performers is been like such a change, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

It's yeah, I I say this a lot, like if you've in my orbit, you've probably heard me say, but it's like really healing to be a part of something that's like actually striving and working on something and not like cathartically complaining about it, which I'm not here to say don't bitch and moan about stuff because do it. Um pro bitching, yeah, totally. Like, but like I don't know, it's just very isolating when you when all you do is like complain or all you are is upset about something. Um, but like being in a room with people who are like so sure of their self-interests and their shared self-interests creates this like crazy amount of trust with like your peers and like confidence, and you're like, you don't feel crazy, you're like, oh, the things that I'm caring about do actually matter, and here's 40 people that also care about that, and that's healing. That's like that's like it like takes what we feel when we're on the internet and just like flips it upside down, and it's like you actually probably are in alignment with more people than you think when you're not in the comment section reading like like bots basically that are like driving up uh retention or whatever. So and that's like incredibly healing, and I I think it like um I don't know, it's changed my understanding of success in a lot of ways. Like that piece of it where you're like really sure what your self-interests are. We talk about self-interest all the time as organizers, and I've been learning a lot about it, like in a you know, like a really I don't know, real way, I guess. And uh yeah, I think like being a part of T Cup is I I don't know, I I can't really see my life without it. Yeah, with to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah, yeah. I mean I feel like complaining is is cathartic and and there's nothing wrong with it, but after a while it just leads to like nihilism at some point. And I think that's like a lot of people just hit that nihilism wall and and think that there's nothing they can do, and it like takes yeah, it takes the power out of your own hands that you have to do stuff.

SPEAKER_05 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

Is there anything that you guys are working on specifically right now with Tika? Like anything you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, we have uh a current campaign about advancing in the in the Twin Cities, which is um yeah, we had over 500 uh local performers sign on to that, and that's all about getting the right information and transparency and communication with venues because there's no set standard in the in the cities right now. It's you know, depending on where you play, you might not get anything. Could be a day before, it could be you don't know how you're gonna get paid or how much, like all that stuff is is um basic level stuff that that we deserve as as laborers. So we're that's the first campaign we're kind of working on, and uh now we're just like following up with all our performers that have signed and seeing how it's going in the in the cities that advancing if they're doing it and starting the conversation with venues too. Just because ultimately we want the venues to be doing it, not not us.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Right. Yeah. How does it sound like it's going?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

It's I mean it's tough. Changing a culture is tough. Um so it takes time and and we just I mean we launched it uh we got the 500 I think in March or something and then went public with it uh in April or uh yeah so it was it's very recent. So now it's just like following through on the hard part, which is like getting people to to do it. Um which you know there's roadblocks of people maybe are don't want to be the squeaky wheel or or they don't think they can do it because they're not the person that booked it or whatever. There's all these things that that get in people's way.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:35

Definitely, yeah. I think it's going well for yeah. I think we're always gonna be thinking about how we can make it better. Like you know, we're always like re-strategizing or pivoting if we need to. Um, but yeah. We're also like our politics community committee is um has been doing a lot of like power mapping of the the political landscape of Minneapolis and getting involved in endorsing candidates and um Omar Fate for mayor, uh yeah, and other like city council members and stuff, uh, because we have big plans to put more money in the scene, um, like at the municipal level and maybe at the state level. Amazing. So yeah, we are we're yeah, like the advancing campaign is like what we're doing to change the culture and set the expectations of like how we should be communicated with and treated. And then yeah, we are also very much um working towards the money part of the conversation and figuring out how to solve that issue as well, which has been very cool to be a part of.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah, yeah, it's it's inspiring, definitely hopeful. It's I think like when we talk to most people, they're really inspired by Teacup as an idea, you know, and and um the advanced campaign is is really great, and I think it it we had to start there because it's just like not we don't get the basic level of treatment that we should. Totally. But most people want to know like, yeah, how we how are we gonna make this more sustainable? How are we gonna get actual money, like how we should be paid? And that is a much more complicated question, and we're already yeah, we're putting in work on that, and there's exciting, exciting stuff.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Amazing. I want to say thank you for everything that you've done. I feel like the I went to that first big initial, like, hey, please sign the pledge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think like me and I think the people around me that attended, I think the biggest emotion was like empowerment and like connected and and that is just like that in itself is just so amazing and awesome and feels so good. And it feels so cool to be a part of a community that has people like you guys in it that that are making moves.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Yeah, and we need we need you, you know, we need other people too, because like we can be mobilizers and that's great, but if we want to be a labor movement, then it's a people power thing, you know. You need people to to feel like and that's that's the hard thing, is yeah, feeling the empowerment and feeling the action of like, oh yeah, like I can do this and and I should do this because it's it's in my self-interest to to make this more sustainable for everybody, not yeah, me and everybody else, you know?

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Yeah, for sure. I've yeah, I'm honestly like really motivated by the self-interest part. Like the thought that in a year or two I could make $750 for every show that I play is like and that's so obtainable. Like given the research that we have and the the people that we're moving through the political landscape with and how we're strategizing, it's extremely doable, but it r does require like a huge base of support. It requires venues and and artists to be on the same page and to be in coalition with each other, and like that is like I can taste it, like we're so close, but we won't get there unless like everybody is really tuned into the conversation and is it part of it. Um and that I'm really motivated by that. Like it feels I I just I'm I'm so tired of working 15 jobs. Like I if I could like perform and teach and just like stream occasionally, like that's that's amazing. And if I could like live that way, and it's totally possible to. Um it's right around the corner, and I don't I don't know. I don't want to leave this earth without like trying, at least, you know. I just not satisfied by any other type of work. Like I I don't I can't just can't do it. So I have to organize then, right? You know? I can't just complain about it, I have to make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

It feels like it's uh like arts are in danger, you know. Like even not even if we're not even talking about Trump or politics that are attacking the arts, it's like just like that way of living is in danger because it's just not with the the cost of living, it's so hard to do it. And I want people to be able to do it because it I believe in it so much like that it's it brings so much to humanity. So it's yeah, I mean it's necessary.

SPEAKER_05 49:14

It's at the center of every community is music and art, obviously. And yeah. I don't know. The thought that like we're not supporting our artists with like some form of universal basic income or something so that people could enjoy art for free. Because there's like adding the whole capital aspect to it just like completely diludes so much of its purpose. And I think about a world where like musicians and and artists of the like are somehow supported in a way that they don't have to sell their trauma to people and like be like that's just kind of crazy to me. Um I don't really know the politics behind universal basic income, so don't come for me in the comments or anything, but just like the world of like UBI, how dare you that we yeah, like that I don't have to sell you art that you as a human just you should just get to experience it, but that at the same time you have to like support the people that make it and make it that their life, you know.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:14

So that they can keep providing a public service to their communities, which is what it feels like it is.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, absolutely.

unknown 50:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Yeah. Did you guys discuss success together before you came? Or you guys have been in your own heads about it?

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Kind of kind of both. And I feel like honestly, like we talk about that kind of shit all the time, anyway. Um but yeah, we talked about it a little bit, and we're just like because I think it's been wrapped up in in teacup stuff as as well, you know. Like what what does it mean to be successful at this? Yeah, is is a huge question that we grapple with all the time. So it's it's it's an awesome question, yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. I I I was thinking about it too of like all that aspect that we've been talking about, but then personally, like what is success to me as a as a as a writer and a musician and performer is like a a tough question too, and that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 51:07

Yeah. Do you want to elaborate on you wanna tell us?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

It's just mystery, yeah. Um yeah, I think I don't know. I I mean I have a legendary tattoo on my arm, so younger self thought fame was the the right success, but um I think now it's like yeah, like does it does what I'm making move me? Uh does it fulfill me? And does it do I have like a connection with the people I'm playing with are like the biggest things to me of like I'm I'm being successful if that if those things are happening. Um we were chatting actually the other day of like because I feel like I don't some people have a view of like what the audience experiences is really important and the listener, and I do think that that's important, like you can't really separate that, but it's not like the the first or second or third thing I think of. Um so we were having a combo about that of like yeah, what is what where does the audience sit in it or the listener, you know? Like I do think about them when I'm writing sometimes. Like, what is this what do I want this song, what do I want people to feel when I'm writing this? Um, but it's yeah, I I don't think about it as much as other people. Um totally, yeah. So yeah, it's interesting. It's a skill too, right? Like if I'm thinking about pop music or something, it's like no, you that is a skill to be able to like be like think about what is gonna hit in this moment, what are people gonna connect to, like what kind of thing? That is hard, you know. Um so I yeah, I it's not what I do, you know. Um I if I'm thinking about that, I'm definitely thinking about, yeah, like we write some, like a lot of our music is dance music, so it's like are people gonna move to this? Are they gonna connect with it that way? But then also like lyrics, I'm thinking about like if it's past, I feel something now. What is this song like trying to say? What am I trying to say to and can people get that? Is it gonna challenge them? Is it is it understandable the way the lyrics flow, whatever, you know? Like, so yeah, you have to think about it, it's for sure, but it's just not something I think about mainly.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Yeah. Do you have any more words on success to you?

SPEAKER_05 53:12

Success. Yeah. Um it's it's a great question because I think like it has phases of like, you know, like in high school and then like graduating going to college, and like that mindset of like very um what's the word, self-important or like you know, very individualistic, like I'm successful if I pass all my classes, I'm successful if I land the audition, I'm successful if uh people are asking me to play gigs three times a week, blah blah blah, like all these things that are like rooted in capital and you know, like I don't know, all of that shit, right? And whatever. And then um, but yeah, as we know, that's like unsustainable for me personally, and it like led to a lot of burnout because I don't actually care about making money um to a fault. I like it, I wish it motivated me a little bit more because then I think would be maybe a little easier for myself, but um yeah, I don't know, like I go back and forth, like a lot of it is like a mindset which is like super basic, but like you know, the way you frame it um really matters, right? Uh but then that's that wasn't like enough for me. So I'm like, I don't know, I was like trying to come up with like a formula of like everything that I've done in my life that I feel proud of, what for whatever reason, like what were like the key things that like made that work for me. And I hope this changes and evolves, but right now where I'm landing is like um like curiosity like meets action, right? So like being like deeply curious about something to the point where like I like not know about everything about it, or I can't like I can't stop myself from like trying it or exploring it or whatever, like it's like whatever that feeling is. Um and it doesn't feel like passion because passion feels like it has a lot of experience behind it, like there's like whatever, but there's like something about not knowing, yeah. Not knowing, but being like obsessed with knowing. Want to know, and then like but then you have to like have the action behind it. That's like how I feel, like teaching and performing and music and streaming and organizing, these are things like I have this deep curiosity for. Um and I just can't not explore it. And that if that though I have those two things and I feel like I'll be successful at it no matter like what the outcome is, I will get a lot of fulfillment out of it.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

What about you? Do you have a do you have a what is success uh that speaks to you?

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Um well obviously I think about it a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Here we are, yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Um I think for me, you know, growing up where we grew up, I think like authenticity has always been hard for me. Uh or just like scary, which I'm sure many, many, or if not all, relate to. But I think yeah, when I'm doing when I'm being authentic and when I'm feeling proud of whatever that is, whatever that's looking like, feels like success to me. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Is authentic like that you uh is it like a I don't want to imitate somebody else's stuff, or is it like this just feels like me? Like what does authentic mean?

SPEAKER_02 56:37

I think it's like no walls, no barriers, no like pretending or um I think yeah, just being I think honesty too, like being honest and and being myself and being proud of that. Vulnerable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Yeah, that's dope.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Which is like still so hard. Definitely after all this time I've been trying. But I think honestly, it's like I was just home this past weekend. I was telling you guys I spoke to you over the weekend, but like it's crazy how I don't know if you feel this, but like I'll go back home and I'll almost I can like feel myself reverting back to this just like more like rule follower and like quieter version of myself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

Yeah, in that environment because it's just like that's what that's what was expected of me, I think, when I w was there. I can't I yeah I would assume that doesn't feel good.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't. But I mean I feel like I get more comfortable every time I go up and yeah, yeah, I resonate.

SPEAKER_05 57:37

I think um like on the flip side of the coin, like I don't know, like being in every club and every sport and in choir and in like you're in everything, and if you get you I don't know, I got like good grades and I was just like kind of assumed leadership positions, but I like never really felt like I wanted to be the leader, but like everyone was like, you need to be captain and you need to be section leader and you whatever, and oh my god, you have straight like it was just like all this expectation to be like really good at everything. And then I I like I feel myself feeling like I have to prove that when I go back home or when I talk to people from back home because they're always like, How are you? What are you doing? Are you doing music? Are you doing the thing? Are you living the dream? And I'm like, God, like why does my urge have to feel like yes, I did it, I've I did the whole thing, but it's like dumb as fuck. Like, who cares?

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Like, I'm like, the girl boss.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

Yeah, like it's yeah, but I never really never really resonated with that. And then now I'm like in an actual leadership role in in organizing, and it's like the hardest thing I've ever done because I'm like doing it in a genuine, authentic way when I really care about it, and I'm like, I don't have the skills that I thought I had in these like fake leadership roles, you know, like where people just assumed yeah, I don't know. It's it's weird, it's kind of a mind fuck.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Definitely like Yeah, like the the things that you thought were leadership maybe are something different, you know. Yeah, yeah. And now it's like, oh shit, I really am in this position, and it's way different and harder than I was told, you know.

SPEAKER_05 59:13

Yeah, leadership isn't just being good at something. Not at all. Like leadership is like specifically like being okay not being good at something, and then like figuring out how to do it, and then pivoting when it's not working, and over and over and over again. Just and so yeah, like when you're not good at something, you feel like a failure, and just like that mindset just leads to like so much unnecessary noise that I really I wish I didn't fall into that. Yeah, and now I'm in I'm 30 years old and I'm you know, I have people pleasing tendencies and I say yes to things I shouldn't say yes to, and whatever. I don't know. I still feel that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

We're all working. I think also something that came to my brain was like giving myself permission to change. Like kind of separating myself from the expectations of others feels successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

I I have like a every year I try to like look back and think about like what did I write this year and what did I write the year before? And does it feel like does it feel like I'm different? You know, like am I my writing do I feel more like fulfilled? Is it more moving? Is it more whatever? Uh am I not stagnant? I have like a a thing with being stagnant for sure that's like maybe not healthy, but uh but like you know, like I want I want to be like changing and growing and learning. Uh and sometimes that can come in like an unhealthy way, but for the most part, it's like, yeah, I want I want to look back and be like, oh fuck, yeah, I I wrote these songs this year, and these are so much killer than the year before, and that's awesome, you know. Yeah, rather than being like, Oh yeah, I just didn't write shit this year, it sucks. But that just takes like, yeah, it takes a lot of time and investment and and like open-mindedness to growing, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:06

Totally, yeah. Yeah, change is so cool. It's like it's funny. I always talk about how like like deep down I feel like a very lazy person that I don't I don't want to do anything, but then I'm also like obsessed with like pulling the rug out and being a completely different person, those two like energies, but had so much. Um buttons.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Yeah, they resonate too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

That's that's why I fell in love with you, because you were like, you know what? If I'm gonna do something, I just gotta dive in like in the deep end. I'm like, hell yes, that's exactly what I think about you. Yeah, I'm not gonna get moved unless I'm diving into like the deepest thing, which is cool, you know, because that's that's vulnerable uh in a way.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

Yeah, I was gonna talk about that. The vulnerability is like because you you're curious, I don't know, you're not like stuck in a in a way where you're like, I have to believe this to survive, or I'm coping, or whatever. Like, you're really curious when you're vulnerable. There's something really beautiful about that, and allowing yourself to like sink into that curiosity in like the most I don't know, open way. Like, I we always say like open-minded, stay open-minded, but like really what does that mean? You know what I mean? Like, what does it actually mean to like accept something that you don't know and in in internalize it or unlearn something or whatever? Yeah, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

Um, great chat. Do you guys want to plug anything before we say goodbye? Like maybe a show that you're playing on Thursday? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

We have a show this Thursday at Greenway Recording, uh, live in studio performance, 45 minutes set. There's eight tickets left. Yeah, really excited about it. It's gonna be sick. It's um I've never done it like anything like that before either. Um exciting. We also have a show in August, August 21st at Hook and Ladder, um, with Jojo Green in work from Madison. So that's a really cool bill. That's our next show after this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Amazing. Any releases coming soon?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

Don't have a set date, but it don't get no easier is the new single that will be coming out next month, probably. So yeah, keep an eye out for that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

Yeah, thanks for being here. This is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:19

Thanks for having us.